Node stabilization??

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EZ Mack.clarksclassicfl...	Node stabilization??		Lead	[-]
Posts: 31 12/04/08 17:53:42	OK, the pickle jar is getting low so here is a question. Does anyone know what the node stabilization process is that Scott is using in their cane rods? Below is from the Scott website. "We've partnered with Bernard Ramanauskas, award winning master cane builder, innovator, and fly fishing fanatic to bring you some remarkable split cane rods. Each proprietary model features unique taper designs, hollow built blanks, swells, and a host of other tricks like node stabilization for some of the lightest and best balanced rods around." I heard Bernard mention this process on a pod cast but he did not say exactly how it was done. Frank
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Joe Arguello	Node stableization	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 160 12/04/08 19:37:31	Well in my humble opinion I really think it just a marketing 'hook' or gimmick. Or I guess it could be another term for what we do when we heat and press our nodes. Is that not why we do that? I think so. Just sounds different and I guess to the unsuspecting customer it might sound more impressive! Marketing is always trying to find ways to set yourself apart from the ordinary. One thing that comes to mind is that one or more of the Denver,CO production shops touted the fact that their rods were built in the high, dry climate of the Rocky Mountains. Can't remember which one it was Phillipson? Grainger? just can't remember. So here's my hook I'm getting old and only have a few rods left in me, so order up now or you may not get one! Joe When it's all said and done, there's always more said than done! www.jea-bamboo-flyrods.com
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splitcane	Node stabilization...?	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 532 12/05/08 05:07:27	That implies there unstable to begin with and that is not the case in my opinion... They help hold up a 30' plant with a 4" stock, that's pretty impressive... Maybe after burning and crushing they need stabilization, I don't do that either... My understanding is Bernard moved to Howard, CO., 30 miles down stream from my place on the Arkansas River... I will have to stop by and introduce myself next season, then fish back to my place..."-) Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Fly Rods Last Edited By: splitcane 12/05/08 05:11:56. Edited 2 times.
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EZ Mack.clarksclassicfl...		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 12/05/08 07:52:13	One of the points Bernard mentioned in the pod cast was that after the nodes were "stabilized" they behaved like a nodeless rod. I guess that implies that nodes in the rod are not desirable and that after the nodes in Scott rods are stabilized the rods cast like nodeless rods that he is well known for. Frank
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dsmithbzn.clarksclassicfl...		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9 12/07/08 08:29:05	There was a short gear review "advertorial" write-up in Outside magazine around a year ago about the new Scott bamboo rods made by Bernard. It was pure schlock, but I think that has more to do with Outside magazine than Scott or the maker. So, after describing the sublime design and transcendent aesthetics of the Scott bamboo fly rod, the article played up how the main thing holding back bamboo all these years was that the nodes prevented it from attaining the performance characteristics of graphite. Somehow the node treatment on the new Scott rods was going to overcome this tragic state of affairs and allow bamboo to cast just like your favorite graphite rod. Seriously, this was the main point of the write-up. Anyway, no disrespect intended to Scott/Ramanauskas, as this probably was dreamed up or greatly exaggerated by the writer. -Dan
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scott bearden		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 12/07/08 09:06:20	Actually what Bernard said in the podcast was that he discovered a way to cross link the lignin in the nodes. He wouldn't go into detail, but it sounds to me as though he was simply talking about heating and displacing nodes. It may have sounded technical to the uninformed. There are pros and cons to nodes vs nodeless. A noded rod can never perform the same way as nodeless. I don't believe one is necessarily superior to the other, just different. I suspect that he had only made nodeless rods up until the deal with Scott Rods. Perhaps it was out of necessity, such as he probably started at home like many of us and he simply chose to use the kitchen oven to heat treat the bamboo. Regardless, I believe the interview was more for marketing than information, but that is just my opinion. I wouldn't read too much into what he was saying. Furthermore, I have to disagree with Bernard's assertion that nodes are a weak spot and create a hinge. If you bend a strip of bamboo, that is precisely the stiffest point in the strip, and also the least likely place to break (unless you have applied too much heat for too long concentrated on the nodes). And one more Kudos for the creation of this forum because on the "other one" my post would have been deleted or my post would have caused the whole thread to eventually be deleted. I would rather have enthusiastic debate than to be shut out because of difference of opinion. Scott
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Salmosalar.fiberglassflyro...	I agree Scott...	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 64 12/07/08 17:36:50	As a beginner I don't know the ins and outs of bamboo rod making. Your post (and many other posts at this forum) makes a lot of sense to me. Marketing has taken over many of the "big" companies in our sport leading to bigger, faster and more expensive generations of must have gear. This forum is friendly and comprehensible to me. Differences of opinion show the maturity and intelligence of members and administrators. Gary
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splitcane		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 532 12/07/08 18:21:13	"Perhaps it was out of necessity, such as he probably started at home like many of us and he simply chose to use the kitchen oven to heat treat the bamboo." Funny you would say that Scott... Without exception every nodeless builder I have met started that way, did not want to mess with an bamboo oven... Once they find out building an oven is as easy as a heat gun, most never look back... That's what it's all about Guy's... People that have to poop on someone else to make There Point, have not Point..."-) Dam... Feels good to talk what's on your mind... Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Fly Rods
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Joe Arguello	Waters of the Big Thompson	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 160 12/07/08 19:54:49	Frank Drummond has a condo in Estes Park, and we had scripted an advatorial that went something like this: After acquiring the Bamboo from China it is stored high in the Rocky Mountains in Estes Park for several years, it is then soaked in waters from the Big Thompson river which flow in the spring time before runoff. The cane is then hand beveled as to feel every power fiber that needs to go into the finished Bamboo rod. Then the beveled strips are heat treated using charcoal made by burning a downed Pondarosa Pine which grew just below timberline. The heat treated strips are set out to cool beneath the full moon pointing to magnetic north as to align the power fibers and therefore eliminating any chance of the finished rod taking a set and ensureing that when you are casting upstream the rod will perform with the upmost accuracy. The guides used must be hand made of piano wire salvaged from a vintage piano played by one of the true masters, this will give the rod true harmonics. These guides are wrapped with silk thread from silk worms that have been fed the entrails of a rainbow trout. The varnish is made form pine pitch of a standing Pondarosa Pine and japan hardener. When the rod if finished it is blessed by a fly fishing Monk with water from St. Mary's Glacier. Well, I was on a roll, we had it all figured and Frank chickened out...............I was gonna make him famous! Joe When it's all said and done, there's always more said than done! www.jea-bamboo-flyrods.com
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HexaMaineiac	Nodes are not weak points until...	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5 12/10/08 23:30:56	.......they are heated, unkinked, pressed , displaced and sanded. I believe that once you start messing with them they do become weak points. I think that simply sanding them flat is the worst way to deal with them, I tried it on some test strips and they didn't bend smoothly but did snap briskly, at the nodes. When we heat them, press them, sand of the ridges etc. we preserve more power fibers and so weaken them less, but we still create a point which is weaker than it had been. We interrupt a few fibers, heat them enough to make them plastic and push them where they didn't come from- that all adds up to less strength than mother nature put there. I don't know anything about the stabilization referred to, nor do I worry about my unstable nodes (I have bigger worries, like hitting the numbers and avoiding glue lines). My point? is not we should all go make nodeless rods, just that we do need to realize that after we've mucked with it we can't still say a node's as strong as the rest of the cane. Rant over, time for bed. Henry. A line in the water is hope extended. Catching a fish is hope affirmed. Paul Quinnett, Pavlov's Trout.
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